New York Times Bestselling Author of the Madame Chic Series: Jennifer L. Scott

Episode 33

[00:00:00] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Hi, I'm Dr. Chloe Carmichael Clinical Psychologist, author of Nervous Energy Harness the Power of Your Anxiety. And of course your host for the High Functioning Hotspot. Today's guest is a very special woman. Her name is Jennifer L. Scott. She is a New York Times bestselling author, a YouTuber with hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

[00:00:25] She is a mother to four children and she's a happily married wife. So for me as a clinical psychologist who works with high functioning people, one of the things that I'm always trying to let people know is that high functioning people are everywhere and they can absolutely be homemakers. Of course, Jennifer, those beyond homemaking in her life, she is of course a New York times bestselling author and successful business person as well. But when she started her journey, she was primarily a homemaker and she then went on to self-publish a book. She tells amazing stories about how she was rejected, right every age and et cetera. And then she just self-published.

[00:01:08] And next thing you know, she becomes the New York Times best selling author. This woman is amazing. I personally have really enjoyed her videos. So even if you're somebody that thinks “Oh, I'm not really into homemaking”, I’m telling you Jennifer is definitely more than that. And so I just found the opportunity to chat with her and ask her questions to be such a treasure.

[00:01:30] I hope that you enjoy this interview as much as I did. Without further ado, here is Jennifer L. Scott, New York Times best selling author of Lessons From Madame Chic and other wonderful books.

[00:01:43] Hi Jennifer! Are you there?

[00:01:46] Jennifer Scott: Hi!

[00:01:46] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Hi Jennifer! It's so good to see you. I feel like I know you because I watch your videos and love them and your books as well.

[00:01:55] Jennifer Scott: Thank you. It's so nice to meet you. I know I initially saw you on Twitter, I think. And yeah, it's fun to connect like this.

[00:02:03] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: I know, it's like one of the fun things about our digital age, right. I always try to manage my screen time, but at the same time, it is so much fun to be able to connect like this.

[00:02:13] Jennifer Scott: I know. I love it. Yeah, me too.

[00:02:16] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Jennifer, you may know that I'm a clinical psychologist and I specialized in what's called high functioning people, which you clearly are. And just to kind of explain that term a little bit before I ask you the question of really how you kind of got to be such a high functioning person.

[00:02:36] Because that's what I'm always curious about with people. Just so you know, in Psychology, a high functioning person is somebody who goes beyond just being able to, say, manage their own food, clothing, and shelter, and, have a couple of decent relationships and things, but who really goes to the next level who say, instead of being a normal, great homemaker goes above and beyond and just really takes it and elevates it to an art form.

[00:03:06] Or instead of just going through the motions of motherhood, really goes into it in a really deep and meaningful way. I mean, I could go on and on about the ways that you're so high functioning, but I'm curious what your childhood was like, if you don't mind sharing, or what you think gave you that spark for greatness.

[00:03:27] Jennifer Scott: Wow! Thank you! That's a really good question. I am definitely a, I would call myself a high, high functioning person, although I've never heard that label necessarily before, but I'm someone who loves efficiency.

[00:03:43] And it's funny you mentioned childhood because I have memories of being in school like elementary school, public school system, being in class and feeling incredibly frustrated because it wasn't efficient enough. Like, I specifically remember being a child thinking, wow, I have to wait for all these people in order to move to the next step, basically.

[00:04:07] And I had those thoughts in my head and I've always, even as a child been the type of person who liked to get my work done ahead of time. So, I don't know if it's built in my personality or what, but I've always liked to get things done efficiently and also leave room for beauty and exploration. And I think that's why I like to get things done.

[00:04:31] I want to get everything done so that I can then have some fun basically with that like work first and then joy or pleasure after, but I've learned now to infuse the joy and the pleasure in the work too.

[00:04:43] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Labor of love.

[00:04:45] Jennifer Scott: Yes, truly. So I don't know if it was anything particular that my parents did, but I had a lot of time as a child to be bored and explore.

[00:04:56] I wasn't, I didn't have a crazy schedule, like today's kids seem to have. I took piano lessons, that was like my only extracurricular activity. And I just had a lot of time to be by myself. My sister was five years older than me. I remember her going to college and then I was like an only child for many years. So I had a lot of time. I read a lot and I just hung out by myself. I'm an introvert. So that was fine for me. And that might've contributed to it as well. I'm not sure.

[00:05:30] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, it may have contributed to it. But of course, a lot of people have a lot of time on their hands and they just end up getting up to no good. So it's really good that you are able to take that and turn it into something so constructive.

[00:05:48] Jennifer Scott: Well, I definitely went through periods of time where I fell into that trap too. And I talk about this sometimes on my channel. But in my twenties, I used to watch a lot of television, just like most people do and I would have it in the background or I would get involved in certain shows.

[00:06:06] And I realized what a time-waster that was, not watching television intentionally and just like having it on for hours. So I went through several years where I did waste a lot of time. And then I woke up from that. And I kind of am an all or nothing type person. So I currently don't watch television at all.

[00:06:26] So if there's something I really want to watch I'll put it on, but it's like intentional high quality stuff. I never would channel surf today. So I have gone through phases where I have wasted a lot of time.

[00:06:40] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Sure, sure. Well, that's an interesting share and thanks for sharing that. I do remember you talking about that a little bit, and that was interesting. I'm not really super into TV myself either. But I'm curious, for you, what about social media? How do you manage time and how much time do you spend on social media?

[00:07:01] Jennifer Scott: Well, because of my work, because I have a YouTube channel. I am on social media more than I think I would be if I didn't have that platform.

[00:07:09] I have completely stopped using my personal Facebook page for several years now. In fact, I went on it the other day and, I have four children, it doesn't even have my youngest child on there. Somebody came to see me, they think I only had three children. I haven't updated it in like three or four years.

[00:07:27] I just don't spend too much time on social media. I get on and I get off. I will go on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to post that I've posted a video on YouTube, but I really try not to linger. Instagram might be the hardest where I'll start to scroll, but I don't try to spend too much time on there. Again, just very intentional because I know what a waste of time it can be to just mindlessly be on the platform, so.

[00:07:55] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Right. Your channel and your brand and those things, they're so sophisticated. I'm interested in you really through so many different lenses. So part of it is the homemaking and the style piece, but obviously you have quite a business head as well. I'm just curious, do you work with consultants that help you to think about strategy or is this all just coming from Jennifer's mind? I'm so curious!

[00:08:27] Jennifer Scott: It's coming from the mind of Jennifer, mostly. I do have people I work with, like, I work with an editor and a graphic designer and a website team. But as far as creative content goes, that's all me. And I say this to people all the time and I think people have a hard time believing it, but I never run out of ideas. I have a journal that I keep and I'm constantly coming up with new ideas and I write them all down.

[00:08:51] So even if I had a moment where I'm like, I don't know what to do, I just open up the journal and I look at past inspirations. So I don't have a problem coming up with content. It's time for me, and so I found that delegation has been very helpful. So I do have a team, but not for content strategy.

[00:09:10] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Right. Well, a lot of people are even actually pretty good at coming up with content, but when it comes to executing it into a package and a course that sells, I know you have courses as well which are very reasonably priced, I just want to say, and we'll definitely link those as well. But I'm curious if you don't mind sharing. I mean, do you just put them out there and then they sell or do you have a strategy when you roll things out? And is that all, again, just coming from the mind of Jennifer?

[00:09:43] Jennifer Scott: Yes, it is. The course has ended up being way bigger than I thought they would be. My idea with the courses was to have concentrated content because on YouTube I'll publish two videos a week, three for my private members. But I thought I want to have these concepts, like the 10 Item Wardrobe or the Efficiency Course. And I want someone to be able to go on there and watch all of them without interruptions or having to wait 10 weeks to get everything. So I've put it all together.

[00:10:14] I like to price my courses in an affordable manner, because I'd rather lots of people take them rather than just a few people take them. I don't want price to be a problem for people, and that actually ends up working even better, I think, because everyone's happy that way.

[00:10:32] So. Yes. So I do have a strategy, but a lot of times with what I'm doing, there's a discovery factor where I have no idea what I'm doing, because it's the first time I've done it, but I go in there and I learned from it and and everything, but I've really enjoyed the e-courses.

[00:10:48] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. I'm going to actually check those out myself as well. Those look really interesting. So about your journey, I know that acting and writing have been long-term interests for you. And I love how you share in some of your videos about how you did not have overnight success, and you really worked to make it happen. I'm curious if homemaking was also one of your long-term interests and goals, and if having a big, beautiful family with four lovely children was part of your goal in life. And how did you navigate that? Because as a woman, I almost feel like sometimes we're not guided to value that role as much anymore. I'm curious how that process was for you.

[00:11:40] Jennifer Scott: So I've always loved homemaking. It's just even as a child, again, like I would bake cakes and I would decorate and I've always loved it and I've always looked forward to having my own home.

[00:11:51] So that's always been a passion of mine and that's why I love creating content on it and writing books about it and that. So that was always there. I never wanted a big family. I'm not quite sure how that happened. That's not something that, I mean, I know how it happened, but it's not something that I set out to have necessarily, but I just, I really enjoy being a mom and having children, and it is a lot of work.

[00:12:17] And especially if you're working too outside of the home, there's so much to consider, but there's so much joy in it. And so it happens this way that we have four children and it's just a wonderful, magical process. I don't know. I really enjoy everyday life. And there's really not a lot of room for rest, which sounds bad. It's something that I'm working on more, but I know that that will get easier as the children get older.

[00:12:46] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Was it hard or a challenge? I mean, when I was growing up I really felt like nobody ever talked to me about how I could be a mom and I could be a homemaker. They talked about how you can be a doctor, you can be a lawyer, you can be an astronaut, et cetera.

[00:13:03] But nobody really ever carved that out for me and said, you could do this and it would be wonderful. I'm just curious, did you feel pressure to do other things or did someone tell you the beautiful secret early on that homemaking is a beautiful, valuable job that you could do?

[00:13:28] Jennifer Scott: No, I didn't have that. Nobody ever told me that, and it wasn't strongly valued. And it was the same thing, which is great that we women are empowered to do whatever we want to do and we can do whatever career we want to. But I do think it's important to value the home life for both men and women because our home, if things are successful at home, we're going to be successful outwardly too.

[00:13:53] If things are a mess at home, your outward, your life or career outside of the home is going to be not as fruitful as you would probably like it to be. But I really discovered the joys of a beautiful living and homemaking definitely in my own home too. I always want to say that, but you don't appreciate the things in your own home growing up, like what your own parents do for you. right?

[00:14:14] Sometimes it takes an outsider to open that to you. And so that was my Madame Chic experience when I went to live in Paris with the French family that I write about in my series. Because I was open to a new culture, a new way of living, and it was so beautiful that it really made an impression on me at a young age. And I do believe that that influenced me a lot as well in how I lived now.

[00:14:39] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah, that's beautiful. I actually love also in one of your videos where you go through some classic literature and you unpack a scene from Farmer Boy by Laura Ingalls Wilder, where the boy has to go through so much work, so many chores around the house, and then he's able to bask in his clean home and just appreciate that cleanliness in a way that he wouldn't have, if he didn't have to work to create it.

[00:15:07] Again, I've been truly fascinated by all the different angles that you pick up, that you weave together. So another question that I wanted to ask you is another thing I've noticed that you bring up somewhat often, not super often, but occasionally you'll bring up religiosity or religion.

[00:15:28] And just how grateful you are for your religion, for your faith and how much it means to you. I'm a Christian as well, and obviously, if you're actually a Christian then it really tends to mean quite a lot, too. And as a psychologist, I know that religiosity, the degree to which a person is religious, is actually considered a protective factor in stress. In psychology studies, it doesn't matter, even, what the religion is. It's just having a religion. So I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, if that was a foundation that you had from the very beginning in life or what that journey's been like for you.

[00:16:12] Jennifer Scott: That's a great question. I have certainly become, I've always been a spiritual person and always a seeker, I would call myself. And so I grew up in a household where my parents allowed me to seek and discover for myself. So I wasn't raised in a strictly religious household. And so it's funny when we look back, I think for me, that was probably a good thing because I am the type of person where it needs to be my own and, and it needs to mean something to me.

[00:16:44] So the older I got and as I moved on in married life and with children, and I think this happens to a lot of parents especially, is that you seek God more and more. Because you need Him basically.

[00:16:59] I can't do this by myself because it is not easy, it's hard. And then, especially in the hard times, like when you're sleepless nights or you're having an argument with your spouse, or you're just going through a difficult transition in life. What do you have? There's literally only one thing for me and that's God.

[00:17:17] And that’s that, turning to God and getting that peace that only He can give you. So I would say that as I've grown older it has become more intense, my seeking of God. But I have always been a spiritual person, a seeker even from when I was a younger child, but yes.

[00:17:36] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Awesome. So just continuing then on that path of your growth, one of the marks of high functioning people is often actually a focus on growth and self-improvement.

[00:17:50] But they're able to do it without getting stuck in self-criticism, right. And it's really a balance because we have to be able to be frank and clear and candid about what are the areas that we need to improve. But we also can't get so focused on those areas that we become demotivated and just become negative. So do you mind sharing how you find that balance or how you developed that skill?

[00:18:17] Jennifer Scott: Yes, I think I was so funny because I was talking to a group of writers last night about the subject of resilience, and they're starting out on their journey and I feel that resilience is a strong point. It's something that I've experienced a lot because I've had so much rejection in my professional life, as well as my personal life, but definitely my professional life.

[00:18:39] And I was telling them about this, when I wrote my first book Lessons From Madame Chic. I thought this book, I have this like Pollyanna optimism, I'm not one of those writers that feeds myself up about not being good. I wrote this book and I thought, this book is so good. I cannot wait to get an agent and a publisher, let's go. So then after receiving 50 rejections between that and my first mystery that I wrote, I was like, “Oh, wow, this is harder than I thought it would be. Okay!” And it was just more like plan B at that point. And I'm so glad that I didn't let those rejections stop me.

[00:19:14] I could have just put it on a shelf and just forgot about it and just went on with my life. But I decided to self-publish Lessons From Madame Chic in 2011 and it ended up being really great, obviously because I started my YouTube channel to promote it, which has been wonderful.

[00:19:29] And then a few months later, the New York Times reviewed it. It was the first self-published book ever reviewed by the New York Times. And then right after that, I got an agent and a publisher and it was wonderful. And the bottom line is that I didn't give up. I didn't allow the criticism that I received to affect me because I knew deep down that I was offering something that no one else could.

[00:19:50] I had this experience that I wanted to share with people. I knew there was an audience for it. So that's what I told the writers last night, I said, “What do you offer that other people don't offer? What's your perspective, what's your story?” So I think holding true to that, and everybody has an opinion about you, and I'm on YouTube and I have lots of people that have negative things to say about me online, and you just have to be resilient and allow them to have these feelings or emotions towards you, but you keep going. You can't let other people stop you from achieving your dreams.

[00:20:26] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Well, that's beautiful. I think obviously of course it's easier said than done and you are obviously doing it very, very, very well.

[00:20:36] One of the factors in that is usually a person's self-talk, the way that they talk to themselves. And just to give an example, one example of healthy self-taught guidelines is when somebody says, “Well I talked to myself about the same way I would talk to a good friend”, meaning I'm honest but I'm tactful, or those kinds of things.

[00:21:00] Do you have anything you can share about the process of how you go about confronting areas, whether it be in your channel or again, obviously your whole process of chic involves sometimes taking a critical eye to things and then making it better. Do you have any insights as to how you do that on the inside, where you're able to be brutally honest, but also not tear yourself down?

[00:21:30] Jennifer Scott: Yes. That's a really good question. I don't know if what I'm saying is right, because this is in my head, like when I was getting all the rejections for the book, the self-talk I had was “they had no clue what they're talking about”. That's what I just told myself. “These people have no clue what they're talking about and God bless them”.

[00:21:47] And, I mean, I don't know if that's like healthy denial or what it was. I wouldn't say this to them. In my head, the self-talk was, the person who has just rejected me has no clue what they're talking about. And I'll show them. And that was honestly what I would say to myself. And I don't know if that's good or bad in terms of self-talk, but yeah.

[00:22:14] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Well, in your case, it worked right. For some people it's more also learning when to hang it up, but thankfully for you that wasn't the issue. So I don't have that question for you because that wasn't the issue in your case.

[00:22:30] In fact, I'm curious though, since you mentioned it with the rejections that you did get after that first mailing, and I know you were also swarmed with agents after the New York Times did that piece about your book. Were any of the agents who swarmed you, were they agents that had previously rejected you?

[00:22:51] Jennifer Scott: No. It's so funny because I ended up picking my agent who I've been with now for, well over a decade. Like the best, she's the best. And I didn't think that highly of myself back then to send it to these really good agents. I was sending to agents that I thought I could probably get. So no, they weren't any of the ones that I had submitted to. It's quite funny though that you have that pretty woman moment in your mind where you think you know, I don't even know if they know who I am, but you think, well, I hope that they did see that the book did well after all.

[00:23:23] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Definitely, definitely! Okay. So another question you mentioned sleepless nights earlier sometimes to having young children and things like that. I'm curious, how many hours do you sleep a night and has this changed over time?

[00:23:41] Jennifer Scott: So I don't sleep that much. And I try to go to bed no later than 11. I'm trying to get better about it. Sometimes I'll go to bed at 10, but I generally wake up at around five in the morning. So I generally have around six hours of sleep, but sometimes it was less when I had little babies. I don't know how I functioned through that, but it's generally around six hours of sleep.

[00:24:04] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Do you have a sense of what your ideal number of hours is? Is it like six?

[00:24:09] Jennifer Scott: I think six works for me. Yeah.

[00:24:10] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. And then also I'm just curious again with time, because everybody has the same 24 hours in a day, yet some people seem to get a lot of things done with it, but at the same time, it's not always just about getting things done. With your lifestyle that you share, I think it's also clear that you really enjoy a rich personal time and family life, which is wonderful. So I'm just curious, how many hours a week would you say that you spend on professional activities and by professional activities, I don't mean like going through your wardrobe or working on your home, like the things that your listeners are also doing after they watch your channel and get super inspired.

[00:24:56] I mean, like the professional activities of writing or creating content or uploading content or all of that other stuff that go with being a YouTuber and an author.

[00:25:08] Jennifer Scott: That's such a hard question because it's not like I'd go to an office or a nine to five job where I could count that. And I am the type of person where the lines between work and my personal life are a bit blurred.

[00:25:21] So sometimes I'm cooking dinner, literally, for my family. And I'm filming it for Youtube. So it's like, it's hard because I definitely work every day of my life and I'm not sure how many hours of the day I could attribute to it, but it's probably at least four hours to five hours every day to work.

[00:25:43] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: And what about if you were to just say like the YouTube piece? Because for example, I have a YouTube channel, it's not nearly as successful as yours. And I'm just curious when it comes to just like the nuts and bolts of running the YouTube channel. How many hours a week would you say that you put into that part?

[00:26:01] Jennifer Scott: Gosh, I wouldn't want to guess right now cause I feel like it would be really off. I block my work with YouTube. So I'll film over like three days and then I will do, I have an editor, but I will work on all the technical stuff. Like over the other four days, content creation, like script writing, blog writing, and all of that, preparing the videos.

[00:26:26] And there's so much to do with that. So it is a lot of work. I really couldn't say how much. I'd have to sit down and email you after the fact, but it is a lot of work, definitely, cause I do three videos a week.

[00:26:40] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. Do you create your own social media posts as well?

[00:26:45] Jennifer Scott: I do that, yes, I do that myself. That's probably why I don't do as much. I think a lot of other people have someone do that for them. So I do that myself.

[00:26:55] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Well, again, I really do admire all the things that you're doing. That's why I was just curious about it in terms of what you put into that, because the output really is so striking.

[00:27:06] So I just wanted to also share with you something and then ask you a question related to that. So for me as a clinical psychologist, I really see etiquette or style and chic and the way that we manage our space around us, I see those things as an extension of our body language, as well as kind of a broadcast of our interest in others and our consideration of others.

[00:27:36] And even just an interest in attracting others and interacting with others or showing hospitality with others. To me, there's so much psychology in all of that. And I was just curious for you if you have any kind of background or contact or I don't know, just independent reading or anything in the world of psychology.

[00:28:02] Jennifer Scott: No, I don't. I'm fascinated by it. I've always been fascinated with it and it's funny that you said that. Because it's true. There is psychology behind how we behave and why we dress the way we do or don't dress up, which is something I'm fascinated with, but I don't have that much education with psychology. I never took a class in college on it, but I've always been fascinated by it, definitely.

[00:28:26] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. I definitely think that there is just so much overlap there because it's about relationships and subtle communications or cultural customs, there's almost an anthropology element to it on a certain level.

[00:28:42] Jennifer Scott: Yes. I interviewed Professor Ford, Richard Thompson Ford, who wrote a book called Dress Codes. And we talked a lot about the psychology behind dress codes and why we wear what we wear. And I found that to be really fascinating as well.

[00:28:58] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah that was super interesting. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for spending a few minutes here with me today. I feel more chic already!

[00:29:06] Jennifer Scott: Thank you, Dr. Chloe. This was so fun!

[00:29:09] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: The pleasure was mine. Have a great day. Thanks again. Bye.

[00:29:12] Well, I so enjoyed that interview. I have really enjoyed Jennifer's videos and books, and so the chance to actually just sit and chat with her was really amazing. She's every bit as poised and polished, but also warm and friendly as she is in her books and her videos. I hope that you enjoyed that as much as I did. I hope you'll share in the comment sections. Like, comment, subscribe, et cetera, so that we can make this a two way interaction. Thanks so much for letting me share with you. I hope that you'll share with me as well in the comments section or by sharing with your friends as well. Thanks so much. Take care and see you next time.

NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING AUTHOR OF THE MADAME CHIC SERIES: JENNIFER L. SCOTT

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