Episode 25

Greg Foreman:  You guys are supposed to be for lifting black voices, but yet black conservatives get censored or we get called oftentimes coons, sellouts, just because you have different views.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Hi and welcome to the High Functioning Hotspot with me, Dr. Chloe Carmichael. I'm a clinical psychologist, author of Nervous Energy: Harness the Power of Your Anxiety, and of course your host of the High Functioning Hotspot. Today's guest is a little bit different than some of my other guests, mainly because he speaks about politics, which is a topic I usually don't get in the middle of because it can be so divisive. 

But in Gregory's case, I wanted to change that because I think that he has some interesting perspectives. And he was sharing, for example, that Gregory happens to be black, the name of his YouTube channel is Black Conservative Perspective. And he was sharing that for example, there's a lot of interest in amplifying black voices right now, but that he, and according to him, many other  black conservatives feel like they're somehow removed from that or not given the chance to have their voices amplified.

As a person who loves and admires high-functioning people of all stripes, no matter what side of the aisle they're on, I do have to say, I really do admire Gregory's courage and bravery. I know it's not an easy thing to come out on YouTube and start talking about perspectives that are not necessarily always going to be super popular.

So I just want to say I'm not endorsing or arguing against any of the things necessarily or that Gregory says, although I do think many of his points are very good and very interesting,  but I just wanted to share this interview also because one of my articles for The Huffington Post is called Political Polarization is a Psychology Problem. And the idea there is that I feel people are not talking to each other enough on both sides of the aisle. Many people exist in a kind of a silo where they don't really hear or listen to the other side very often. And I personally like to try to listen and consume media and views from many different sides of the aisle so that I can take in a lot of different perspectives.

I recently surveyed my mailing list to discover kind of almost not surprisingly, that my list is almost 100% on the liberal left side. So since in my article for The Huffington Post, I really encouraged people to try to listen and learn about people from across the aisle. I'm guessing that this episode might be a chance for listeners who might be on the liberal or the left side to do that just by listening to some of the thoughts that Gregory has. 

I hope you enjoy the show. And if you do have any thoughts or anything at all about it, please know, I welcome them. You can put them in the comment section or you can DM me directly. Whatever's best for you. And if you do enjoy the episode, I hope that you will like, comment or share the episode because it really helps me a lot in the algorithms. And of course, it's great to try to get voices out there. So thank you so much. And I hope you enjoy this show. 

Hi, Greg! Thank you so much for agreeing to meet with me today. It's great to meet you.

Greg Foreman: Yeah, it's an honor. Thank you!

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  Well, the honor is mine, truly. So I know our time is limited, so I'm just going to jump right in.

So obviously you have this podcast, which is Black Conservative Perspective. And for people maybe that haven't watched your show and don't know your whole story as much, would you mind just giving a little recap about yourself, please?

 Greg Foreman:  Yes, so I am a conservative and I started a YouTube channel slash podcast, I guess you can call it that, where I talk about my views from a conservative  perspective.  I started doing this almost about a year ago now.  Just seeing some things that were going on in the country  that I wanted to speak out about and share my opinion, and it just got popular and took off. So here I am today.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:04:17] Yeah. I mean, that's pretty amazing. So I'm interested in you on a couple of different levels. So on my podcast, the High Functioning Hotspot, we look at people on a lot of different levels. And I do have questions about your political philosophy and how that all evolves, but honestly, even as well, just from a high functioning people perspective, it is pretty incredible that you started this channel a year ago, and I think you have 180,000 subscribers now. So I'm just curious, what's the secret sauce besides just having great content? Like what do you think helped you to really grow so fast?

Greg Foreman: I mean, the secret sauce is just working hard and working smart. That's really what it is.

I just get up every single day, early in the morning, read the news, form my opinions and just share my opinions and just be consistent.  And that's basically what it is, just hard work really.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  Do you do it all yourself or do you have any kind of team or assistance?

Greg Foreman:  It's just all me.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  Wow! Cheers to you! So I'm curious as well, like I've heard you say on your show that you grew up in a conservative household. I believe your father's a police officer. Is that right?

Greg Foreman:  Yes, even though I've never mentioned that on my channel, it seems that you've done some research.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  No. I think I heard it on your channel, honestly. In fact, you know what you're right. I think what you said on your channel is that you had law enforcement in your family.

Greg Foreman: Yeah. I never mentioned that specifically, but you're saying it now. So Hey. But that is true.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Yeah. So you grew up, you said, in a more conservative household and then you became more liberal in college. And then in your words, you became more conservative again in your junior year when you “got exposed to the real world”.  Would you mind sharing a little bit about that? Kind of flow and like what the experience was that changed your heart in both directions?

Greg Foreman: Yeah. So growing up, I'm from the south, from North Carolina, rural North Carolina, one stoplight town. The Bible belt, right? So, you know, I grew up going to church. I had my mom, my dad  was in the same household. They work hard. Right?  My mom's a teacher. Okay, so I have two very middle-class-isk, very hard working  parents. And they raised me kind of in that same way.

And  because of that, I just felt like growing up again in the south, you just naturally have more conservative views about  things. And then I ended up moving from that part of a state to a more  suburban part of the state. And with that came some changes. I ended up going to middle school and high school in a different place, a more liberal area, more liberal city. And I went to a high school, was early college, early college at Guilford. Which is supposed to be for smart people. Right? And that exposed me to a lot of different views as well because that's an ultra liberal college. I was surrounded by more diverse classmates. But I was still overall pretty conservative person, politically speaking and socially speaking. But then I went to UNC Chapel Hill. I went to school there and  I experienced  a more, again, a liberal environment in which I just felt like a little overwhelmed to a certain extent in terms of what I was experiencing, the things I was learning.

And the more I learned, the more I started to kind of buy into the narrative of being black. Like what is it like to be black in America? And to be, I guess, oppressed, right? Because up until that point I was a high achieving student, like anything I wanted, I just applied for it and I got it.

So I was just doing my thing.  But then when you got into UNC and you have all these different people from these different backgrounds. This kind of was happening in early college too, but at UNC specifically, everybody was smart. So, it was different. And then, when you learn more about history and people try to tell you that, “Hey, you know, you are not as advantaged as these other people”. I thought I started to buy into that because I wasn't doing as well as I should have been doing. And then, you know, I got into some issues at the school my sophomore year that I think really kind of woke me up a little bit. 

And then came my junior year,  I just decided to stop blaming everybody else, stop blaming society and to take responsibility for my own situation, my own actions. And at that point I started to really, I guess, find myself again and try to develop my ideology on the world. Did a lot better than my last two years. And  after that, I left to work in the financial services industry at one of the largest mutual fund companies in the world.

Learning more about finance, financial literacy, investments, the economy, things like that.  That kind of solidified my return back to a more conservative perspective, seeing how important the family is in terms of saving money, in terms of achieving success, in terms of raising kids. And I think seeing that from a monetary perspective and just experiencing it and being in financial services, financial planning,  I think that's really what kind of solidified my returning back to being more conservative before I went to college.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: Right. So just to really kind of bring it home for listeners, like what that means to you in terms of being more conservative. Can you share, like for example, what are your thoughts about affirmative action.

Greg Foreman: Yeah. So when it comes to things like affirmative action, I really believed that,  you should not be given a leg up or more opportunities just for your skin color. We live in a world where you just have to compete. And you have to hold yourself to the same standard as everybody else. 

Because in the real world, once you get a job, if you don't perform, then you’re gonna be fired. And people are not gonna look at you and say, “Well, you're black, you're not performing. So therefore, we're going to keep you around”. No, because you cost money at that point. So again, being in the real world, seeing kind of how things actually work in the workforce, I was like, okay you got to be able to perform. You got to be able to perform as much as that person. The excuses really don't matter at that point because everything comes down to money.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  So when you say things like that,  I'll just share with you and I'm sure this is no shock to you, but I wonder sometimes if you, as a person of color are able to say certain things that if say a white person were to say that they could be attacked as being uncompassionate or bigoted and yet the same words coming out of your mouth. It's almost like you have a license to say certain things. Do you think that's true?

Greg Foreman:  Oh yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael:  So I'm curious then, because obviously you felt passionately about these things and I always admire people that are passionate, that are thinking. And that you care about the effect on society.  Do you think then that for example, white people are helping or hurting by articulating those views?

Greg Foreman: Yeah. So I'm a believer in free speech. I think that it doesn't matter who the messenger is. I care more about the message. So if white people want to say the same things I say, I really don't care. In my opinion, it doesn't matter to me. I'm just giving my opinion and that's basically it. I don't know why people get mad about white people saying things that are true. We can debate the merits. Is it true? Is it not true? If it's not true? Then let’s debate it on it being not true. If it is true, then why does it matter who it comes from?

But I am aware that there are things I say that I can get away with because I am black and it would be hard for you to refute what I'm saying in my experience, because you can't say that I'm coming at it from a racist perspective cause I'm not, I'm just telling you my opinion.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:13:31] At least, I certainly wouldn't say that.

However, I'm curious if, because I'll tell you, I personally, you know, I'm a clinical psychologist. I have a PhD in clinical psychology, which is, it's just a notoriously, like uber liberal field. And it's a little crazy even sometimes. And so I think in my personal experience when black people would say things like what you often say, the label that would sometimes get put on them was to say, not by me, but by professors or the academic narrative is sometimes to say, “Well Gregory has internalized racism. And that is why he says the things that he says, because he has internalized racism”.

I see you laughing, which I just, I'm only mentioning that in case other people may be listening and not watching. So,Gregory's laughing, he's having a good chuckle. Can you tell me, what do you think of that?

Greg Foreman: [00:14:37] No, I’m not an internalized racist. Maybe they're internalized racist, because I mean. Listen. I mean, we live in a doggy dog world. I mean, I know that ultimately the black people are only going to say to themselves, right? Like there's no race that's going to come, no government that's going to come and bring up the black community. The black people have to do it for themselves and you have to encourage black people and tell black people, “You're just as good as everybody else”.Right? “You can perform just as well as everybody else”. 

And if you do that, then I think that from a psychological perspective, that's a lot more helpful than telling black people that they're victims and that they need a booster seat, and that the government is going to save them because that's just not true. It has never happened. It will never happen. And I would rather be straightforward and truthful about the issues in the black community rather than lie, because that's basically what got us in a situation in the first place.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:15:35] I have to take the bait. What do you see as the issues in the black community?

Greg Foreman: [00:15:41] Well, I think the biggest issue in my opinion is, I would say, one is Black leadership, right? The Al Sharpton's of the world, you know, the race hustlers of the world. I think that those people make a lot of money, pushing the idea that systemic racism is what's holding black people back.

Now, I'm not saying that systemic racism may or may not exist, right? I'm not saying they're not laws in place that may disadvantage black people to a certain extent, but I do not believe that it is enough to hold down each individual. I believe that each individual’s success is based off, you know, the work that they put in.

Do some people have to work harder than others? Yes. But again, that's just life. Right? So I think people that are pushing this narrative, that they can't overcome this so-called systemically racist system. I think that's an issue because even if the system is actually systemically racist, you only got one choice. You just got to try to overcome it. Right? That's it! I mean, that's what it comes down to.  

And then on top of that, I think that there is a cultural issue when it comes to, you know, fathers and households. And some people say that's a myth, right? Some people say that, you know  black fathers actually spend more time with their children and other races. But you know, out of wedlock birth, single motherhood is like 70% in the black community. So, I'm not necessarily sure if I believe that in growing up, I know personally that a lot of kids that are black, you know, they tend to not necessarily have fathers in homes and they tend to have broken families, or the fathers are deadbeat. The father may be in the house, they may be spending time with their kids, but ain't got no job. They ain't bringing in no money. You know what I'm saying? So I think that is an issue and I think that culture of single motherhood is a problem because I think it's causing a lot of young men to be raised in a way that's more emotional.

And I think that that contributes to a culture of  violence. Okay. And doing things that are not necessarily  good for the community as a whole. And I think that you see that being projected across all types of  occupations, right. And things like, for example rap music, you see in basketball and stuff like that, NBA, you see a lot of black players like, “Hey, you know, I was raised by my mom, I was raised in, you know, the hood or whatever”.Right? 

I think it's just one of those things that it's a cycle that I think perpetuates throughout generations. And I think that it has put us in a position where we don't have role models or that we're not looking up to the right role models in terms of what a black people can actually achieve and what they can be. Because we have this issue of not having strong male figures, whether that's at a national level or civil rights leaders or in the household.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:19:00] What do you think about, it seems like there's kind of a new  development of thinking where at one point the goal was to say, “Let's judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin”. And the goal was to be colorblind. 

And then now it's like if a person says, “Well, I don't want to see race. I don't want to filter things through that way”. Then the perspective is now like you are actually traumatizing somebody because you're disregarding or denying this really important wound that they're carrying, you know, coming from again, that perspective that there is some kind of a systemic oppression that's happening. So I'm curious, like if you can talk about that, like how you see that situation.

Greg Foreman: [00:19:58] Well, I think that that's ultimately the end goal. And I think the question is that, how do you get there? And I'm not convinced that you can get to a colorblind society by going the anti-racist route, the  Ibram X. Kendi route, basically saying that, okay, well, we have to basically do reverse racism, we have to put black people in a position where they're going to get more opportunities than white people and we have to consider them first, we have to basically do equity.  Because I think what it does is that that creates more division. I think that creates more hatred. And I think that's going to lead us to a bad place. Ultimately at the end of the day, I think that if people want to be colorblind, we have to truly be colorblind.

I think ultimately black people, if you do believe that we've been systematically oppressed, and that we're at a disadvantage, it's only on us to fix that, right? It's not something that the system can fix because even by the system fixing it, it's only going to cause more problems. And it's going to lead us to a race war, in my opinion. 

I think it's going to lead us to a lot of  you know, white people who are down on their luck, who don't feel like  they have advantages in life. They don't feel like they have privilege. A lot of those people are going to get upset and angry and feel like, okay, why are these black people whom are just as disadvantaged as I am. Like, I feel just as disadvantaged as they are. Why are they getting help? And I'm not getting help. 

And I think that that's what you're seeing happening today. I think you're seeing that because of how far left the whole woke narrative has went in terms of trying to push this concept of equity. Instead of using colorblindness, I think they’re causing that to happen in which white people are starting to see themselves as white, they all started to operate as a collective and say, hey, maybe we should operate in our own interests. Right. And I think that because of that, you know, that type of colorism, that's something that is not going to lead us to a good place.

So I think that no matter what happens. The best approach has to be a colorblind approach and you just have to compete it out. You just have to overcome, right? As long as there is no overt discrimination and things like that. I think that we can work through it. I think that you have other communities, like the Asian community.  And I'm not trying to generalize here, but I'm saying like, you have immigrants that come over. Even those from Africa, Nigeria, they come over, they perform at a very high level. Okay, now some people may argue, well, you're getting the best of the best from those places, right?

Like if you got somebody that was not as talented from Africa or India or China, they probably won’t perform as well. Yes, that's true. But I guess my point is this, if the system was holding people back so much, to the point where you say is systemically racist, then Nigerians should not be able to be top performers, right? No matter how hard they work, no matter how talented they are, the fact that they are able to compete and they are able to be top performers tells you that even despite the so-called systemic racism, you can achieve.  You can reach the highest levels. 

You know, I always say, shoot for the stars, land on the moon. You might not get to the stars, but hey, if you land on the moon, you’re still well off.  And that's kinda the way I look at it. I think that the colorblind approach is the best way to approach this because that's going to avoid conflict down the road that it seems like we're headed towards because of people's obsession with having a society be organized by race. It seems like we're headed back to Jim Crow to be quite honest with you.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:23:51] Do you get push back? Like, as I mentioned, people who are like, oh, well you're just an internalized racist or whatever. Do you get that from people sometimes? 

 Greg Foreman: [00:24:01] Well, I think that I don't get it too much because I don't really interact too much with my liberal friends. Because you know, they want to cancel people and they don't really want to talk to you because you don't agree with them. But I definitely have heard the argument that black conservatives have internalized racism. And  I actually, a hundred percent kind of disagree with that.

I actually think black conservatives care about the black community more than you know, the liberals do or the leftist, put it that way, do. Because you're telling the truth. Right? You can't help somebody if you don't tell them the truth about the issues. Whether you agree with it or not, or whatever. Like in terms of, oh, well, you know  they're saying things that white people agree with and that's wrong for you to say that. I don't care what white people agree with it. What I care about is whether or not it's the truth. And I think that's what ultimately matters to me. 

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:25:00] Right, so the truth is important at the same time, have you ever thought about just actually running for office yourself or in a dream situation for you, would you be like, like a political strategist and advisor, or would you be an office or would you be like a news show opinion host? What would be the best thing in your view?

Greg Foreman: [00:25:22] Personally? I would like to be a strategist. I think that would be my best position because I would rather work behind the scenes than be out in front, even though I'm kind of doing that now. I don't think I want to run because I just think that money corrupts people. I think that in the current political system, you have to raise money, which means you have to be beholden to donors and special interests and things of that nature. 

And I really don't want to do that to be quite honest with you because of just what it takes. But I have thought about running for, maybe something local or maybe, you know, trying to be a rep in the house or something like that in the future. It's just something I've thought about, but I don't know. I'm just seeing what opportunities come up. 

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:26:09] Yeah, well, I know we're coming towards the end of our time. So I would just say that regardless of whatever side of the political aisle that people sit on, I want them to know, you know, Gregory Foreman's name and your podcast or your YouTube channel, which is Black Conservative Perspective.

Is there anything that I have not asked you about that you wanted to share?

Greg Foreman: [00:26:33] Not really. I mean, I didn't know what really to expect coming into  this interview. I'm interested to know as a clinical psychologist in a very liberal field, why is it that you're interested in my channel? How'd you come across them? What are your own personal political views? 

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:26:54] Yeah. So, I'm interested in free speech generally. So as a psychologist, one of the reasons that evolutionary psychologists have speculated that human beings evolved to being such a sophisticated society is actually because of our ability of language, for our ability to share ideas and talk things through and learn from each other and, you know, refine our ideas together. So  definitely just anyone who's advocating for free speech just interests me, period.  

I'm also really interested in issues about Groupthink, which I don't know if you've heard of that before, but in psychology basically. Like, I don't know if you've heard of like the Bay of Pigs, for example.  So like when there gets to be, as you said, like an echo chamber and everybody is saying the same things and they're, as you said, like canceling or excluding people that just ask questions or feel differently, I personally think that our intellectual integrity really comes to be at risk. 

So I'm definitely just interested in people that are speaking and talking about these issues. And I know that there's a lot of concerns in academia about just a lack of intellectual and political diversity. So I've just always been very interested in wanting to listen and learn from people on all sides of the aisle.

Greg Foreman: [00:28:25] Yeah. Well, I appreciate you know, you giving me some insights, cause I was super curious as to why me? Why are you interested in what I'm doing and what I'm saying?

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:28:38] I honestly think it takes a lot of courage and a lot of preparation.

And you have a lot of insight, again, not only just for the views that you talk about, but just honestly as well, from a business perspective, learning about what you've done and how you've built up your viewership. A lot of people have interesting ideas, but you know, they never really take it at a level that people are hearing about it. And you've achieved on so many levels. I was really curious for the chance to talk with you.

Greg Foreman: [00:29:09] Yeah, no. I appreciate it.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:29:10] Honestly, for me, even to interview you and have you on is actually like a bit of a risk for my precious blue check marks. You know what I mean? 

Greg Foreman: [00:29:18] What? You can't interview a black person? What's up with that?

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:29:22] No, it's not because you're black. It's because you're conservative. I mean, geez. No, of course it's not because.

Greg Foreman: [00:29:29] I know. I was making a joke. You know, again, you bring that up because it's funny. It's like, you know, even if you're conservative, they're like, well, we're trying to elevate black people. You're elevating somebody black but they just happen to be conservative. Oh no, they're conservative, so therefore, you still have to counsel that person, even though we're supposed to be for black people.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:29:52] Have you run into that? 

Greg Foreman: [00:29:53] Oh yeah. I definitely have run into that and I see that all the time. That's like, I think the number one complaint from black conservatives is that, you know, you guys, not you guys not you, but I'm saying like, you know, the left, you guys are supposed to be for lifting black voices, but yet black conservatives get censored or we get called, you know, oftentimes coons, sellouts, just because you have different views.

I mean, you saw what happened to Tim Scott, dude said America is not a racist country and all hell broke loose. So I just find it interesting that you said that like, that you even feel like, oh man, like, you know, even though I'm interviewing someone as black, right. Like you know, supposed to be diverse, but he's conservative. So therefore that's a problem, you know? And I just feel like that is really dangerous, right? That is really dangerous. And that's part of the reason why I'm doing my channel. That's why I'm speaking out because that's not going to lead us to a good place, in my opinion.

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:30:54] I love that you're able to just put it all out there. So thanks again, Greg. 

Greg Foreman: [00:30:55]Thanks! 

Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:30:54] Take care. Bye bye.

Well, that was such a nice conversation. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. I would encourage all of you to, as Greg says, like, comment, most importantly share if you found this episode interesting or if it had ideas that you're interested in. I always just think a conversation is always a good place to start, whether by liking or sharing, or just talking about what we've heard.

So thank you so much again for listening and I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks again and take care.

• The High Functioning Hotspot Podcast Homepage - www.TheHighFunctioningHotspot.com
• Dr. Chloe’s Homepage - http://drchloe.com/
• Gregory Foreman’s Website - https://gforemanbcp.com/
• Gregory Foreman’s YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/BlackConservativePerspective
• Gregory Foreman’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregory-foreman-84a62483/
• Gregory Foreman’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/gforemanBCP
• Gregory Foreman’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/gregforemanBCP