July 1, 2020
How do you know when you've had too much to drink, and you're not actually enjoying yourself anymore?
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What is your drinking sweet spot? Do you know how many drinks make you feel good and how many is too much, to a point where it no longer feels great?
Join me and my guest Natalie Migliarini, founder of Beautiful Booze, as we discuss tips for moderate and mindful drinking. We also talk about alternate options to alcoholic drinks that still give the same amount of social pleasure, and a bit about her upcoming book Beautiful Booze: Stylish Cocktails to Make at Home!
Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to the high functioning hotspot with me, dr. Chloe Carmichael, I'm a clinical psychologist and former yoga teacher in New York city. And I specialize in working with high functioning people. Thanks for joining me once again. And today's episode, I got to delve into drinking. Well, not me personally drinking, but I interviewed a drinking.
[00:00:29] Spirits, Natalie Mick Larine and discussed my blog on mindful drinking as a psychologist who works with high functioning people. Drinking is really interesting topic because many high functioning people have a work hard play, hard mentality. And sometimes we like to drink a little bit because it helps.
[00:00:49] That million miles an hour mind just slow down a little bit. I wrote a blog, which I will read in a moment about learning to find your drinking sweet spot, using some mindfulness techniques. It was great to get Natalie's thoughts on my blog, because she has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media, where she shares and reviews, cocktails.
[00:01:10] This is actually. Side business for her. She's actually a marketing and content company, but she somehow turned her hobby of drinking break cocktails into a lucrative business, really high functioning person there. So here's my blog on mindful drinking. And then I'll go right into the interview with Natalie and joy.
[00:01:31] New York city is a city that loves to drink. We meet friends for happy hours. We eat at business dinners. We go to trendy lounges. We attend networking events with open bars, and many of us, myself included. 11. Nice quiet drink with a delicious meal and a lively social scene at a restaurant bar. The beauty of it is that for many of us, again, myself included all this drinking actually leads to great things.
[00:01:57] Successful business centers, mingling with new and interesting people, and a sense of relaxation that happens effortlessly as alcohol immediately creates a mile. Do you for you that makes us open up, laugh more and shuts off our incessant internal monologue. Side note. I actually met my publisher at McMellon and st.
[00:02:17] Martin's press as I was sitting at a restaurant bar. So good things definitely happen at the bar. And, but at the same time, while alcohol does have clear benefits for many of us, both personally and professionally, with all this drinking, we could probably benefit from some tips from mindfulness to enjoy moderate drinking.
[00:02:37] Even more. And that is the key here. I just want to say that the goal here is to actually learn that by drinking mindfully will actually get more pleasure out of drinking than if we just drink however much. We feel like I find that oftentimes when people are just drinking however much, they feel like, yeah, They actually ended up having a couple more drinks than is actually even truly the sweet spot of pleasure for them.
[00:03:03] So I just really want to frame here that the idea around the mindful observation system is to learn where your true sweet spot is. And then that will help you to be able to stay in exactly the right happy place zone for yourself instead of just, you know, after having a few drinks, just randomly deciding to have a couple more and then.
[00:03:25] You know, actually getting out of your drinking sweet spot. So the goal here is to maximize our pleasure. Now it is important to note that the kind of drinking I'm talking about here is different from alcoholism or addiction to alcohol. Um, you know, I'm not talking about situations where people have too much to drink, and then they ended up getting arrested or having a hospital visit or other forms of drinking that clearly suggests that our normal standards of safety and personal responsibility have been severely compromised.
[00:03:55] Those types of relationships are definitely not what we're talking about here. I'm talking about people who are not alcoholics, but simply people that just want to increase their sense of purpose and control around the way that they drink and drink. Of course. I just want to say that, you know, this podcast is not medical advice or psychotherapy.
[00:04:14] This is just me reading a blog that I wrote about mindful drinking. So the first step is to decide to build your awareness, commit to observe your drinking without trying to change your habits. At least at first. Before we can even have a hope of really changing something. It's often helpful to just observe it.
[00:04:35] This can help us to set realistic goals and to understand our drinking patterns and triggers more folly than if we paid attention to alcohol. Only when it's time to drink it, or only when we want to control it. The idea here is to just pay attention and observe you're drinking from a neutral information, gathering, curiosity based mindset without actually attempting any efforts to change it right now, once you've made a commitment to observe your drinking, here's how to do it.
[00:05:04] Define your observation field, mindfulness meditation often involves choosing something to observe and then observing it for a set period of time. This builds our observation and awareness skills and predefining the time period. For observation actually freezes to dove into the observations without having to second guess ourselves with questions.
[00:05:27] Like, should I stop yet? Have I observed long enough? I wonder if I'm doing this right. We can apply this insight from mindfulness meditation to facilitate drinking observations in the following manner. For a predetermined amount of time, for example, two weeks, two days, or whatever feels right for you commit to observe your drinking and a neutral manner.
[00:05:49] By just noting down your drink counts the number of drinks that you have every day. Your goal here is to just tabulate your drinking without attempting to change it. This is actually more difficult than it sounds for many people. So please be gentle with yourself. If you struggle with this step, just remember that the more familiar you are with.
[00:06:08] Basic information about your drinking, the more capable you are of observing it, and the easier that it will be for you to make whatever changes you desire. Now it's time to document your observations, try to complete the drink log and on my blog, I actually, which is linked in the notes for this episode.
[00:06:27] I have a sample, but it's pretty basic. You know, you just have a log where every day you note the day and you make an entry per page about. How many drinks that you had that day, and then you also note down, um, whether this was a same day entry or a retroactive log, you know, but that if for some reason that you didn't make the drinking log a certain day, you skipped it.
[00:06:51] You actually just note that when you go back and, um, enter the information and then what you also would note. Is whether you are estimating the number of drinks or whether it is an actual count either way is okay. The idea here is that you're just observing your drinking skills, um, your drinking skills, like the number of drinks, as well as your, um, ability or willingness to actually.
[00:07:17] Stick with the idea of observing and of counting the number of drinks. And so here's what to do with your observations at the end of your observation, period, you'll not only have lugged observations of your drink counts. You'll also be observing your overall skills and patterns of observation. We call this meta awareness in psychology.
[00:07:40] Metta comes from the Greek word, meaning overall. Right. So it's like an awareness of your awareness and it is a form of mindfulness. If you notice that you skipped a lot of days, then again, no judgements, but just become curious and try to understand why you're skipping. Is it simply because you forgot and you might just benefit from a reminder in your calendar.
[00:08:04] Or maybe it means that there's a part of you that doesn't like the idea of observing drink counts, or maybe there's some other reason that you skip the idea is to replace any forms of judgment with just curiosity, so that this becomes an exercise in self compassion and self observation, rather than self-flagellation.
[00:08:24] There are no wrong answers, only observations that can just help you get to know yourself better. Um, little caveat, of course. Um, this is. Definitely only true. If you're somebody that doesn't tend to get into dangerous situations when you drink or that, you know, you're not an alcoholic. So if you're someone that, you know, tends to get arrested or end up in the hospital, or you're having other signs of, you know, problems with drinking, then this might not be the right system for you.
[00:08:52] This is a system that I've just found is helpful for people that are just interested in curious about their relationship with alcohol. So the goal here is to sharpen your observation skills regarding drinking so that hopefully, um, you'll eventually be able to start entering more logs where you've actually counted than estimated the number of drinks that you have.
[00:09:14] But if you find that your log shows that you're always estimating, then welcome this as good information. Yeah. Not only as an estimate of your drinks, but also as information about your current observations skills or style become curious about why you tend to estimate rather than count if it's because counting feels boring, remember that this is just an observation period that doesn't have to last forever.
[00:09:41] And that while the counting may not be entertaining, it is in service of broader insights. And if you think that you may be. Estimating to avoid actually counting because you feel a little bit ashamed or regretful about the count. Try to be accurate anyway, and congratulate yourself for increasing your awareness at all.
[00:10:00] Remember to suspend a judgment during the counting phase, be proud of yourself for being bold enough to note the real numbers or at least real estimates. If facing the real numbers is too daunting. Good information for you to know as well. The idea here is just to document your observations, as well as your willingness and ability to make observations.
[00:10:23] Once you have enough data, you can identify what I call a magic number of your idea. Deal number of drinks or you're drinking sweet spot. Your ideal number of drinks for our purposes here is the number of drinks that brings you the most pleasure. Many people find that the first two to three drinks spring, a great deal of pleasure while the fourth and fifth or sixth or seventh, they seem in the moment like they'll bring pleasure, but they actually bring hangovers or regret.
[00:10:51] If you're reading this. Blog chances are that you've had some sort of experience with hangovers, oversharing, extra belly, fat, or other features of drinking that you'd rather skip. The good news is that you can keep the pleasure of all parts of drinking and nix the negatives. By simply stopping at your magic number.
[00:11:10] Of course, this is easier said than done, but if you leave it to your buzzed self to decide the magic number in the moment, it will be much harder to find much less stick to the sweet spot than if you track some observations to locate your magic number in a more logical manner. And then you can do your best self, a favor by learning how to stick with that number.
[00:11:34] The years drinking self will actually have more fun. And thank you later, since it no longer has to do on the spot, thinking about how much to drink many people find that through observation. They discovered that they frequently drink one or two drinks more than what is actually their true maximum pleasure point by reframing your drinking target as the magic number or a sweet spot.
[00:12:02] That's about your pleasure rather than as a limit, many people are able to embrace alcohol moderation as a friend, rather than as a foe. The conclusion is that many people find that having a reference point of how much they wish to drink is very helpful. Since by definition, if we make it up as we go along and just drink however much, it feels right in the moment that we would almost always end up drinking more than we want over the years.
[00:12:30] This is because we would develop a tolerance. And because once we've had a few drinks, it becomes much more difficult to gauge how much we really want to drink. Versus how much we're just operating. And a little bit of a buzzed more is more a type of a mindset that can trick us into drinking more alcohol than is actually optimally pleasurable for us.
[00:12:52] And the goal of drinking is of course pleasure. Right? So the first step to determining your magic number, and then ultimately having drinking habits that support your magic number is to observe how much you're drinking without. Judgment. I hope that you will find the approach and the worksheet helpful.
[00:13:09] The worksheet. Of course they mentioning is just an illustration on my blog, which is linked here, but it's pretty straight forward. You just now note the number of drinks and you note down whether you're estimating or actually counting and you note down whether or not it's a same day on tree. So I hope that you'll find it helpful bottoms up and cheers to you.
[00:13:32] Well, thanks Natalie so much for joining me. Um, as you know, I'm a psychologist and I work with high functioning people. And one of the things that high functioning people often really like to do is to have a couple of drinks, uh, because the whole work hard play hard thing kind of applies. And with a lot of mental activity going sometimes, uh, Nice cocktail really helps to mellow things out.
[00:13:58] Um, so with that said, I'm curious if you had a chance to look at my blog on mindful
[00:14:03] Natalie Migliarini: [00:14:03] drinking.
[00:14:08] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:14:08] That's great. So, um, you obviously, I just want to say you don't have to agree with everything in it at all. Um, but I was just curious, um, if you had any thoughts about it,
[00:14:18] Natalie Migliarini: [00:14:18] I mean, I feel like in the alcohol industry at the moment, um, there is a trend on going towards. Spirit free and low ABV choices. Um, but I like the idea of monitoring yourself.
[00:14:40] I mean, obviously if you, if you choose a more low ABV option or spirit free cocktail, um, there's less of that, but I also think that it brings your article, brings a lot of awareness for people. To try to understand the concept of like checking in with their selves. So I think that's a very interesting concept that we in the alcohol industry don't talk about that much in terms of checking in with yourself.
[00:15:15] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:15:15] Right. You know, one of the things that I found, because I actually also have a lot of friends in the hospitality industry as well. Um, and one of the things that I found sometimes is like you said, people don't want to talk about, uh, alcohol consumption because they tend to view it in this really black and white manner.
[00:15:36] Like, you know, either. You've got a problem with alcohol and you shouldn't drink it, or it's totally fine. And you know, nothing to really talk about. I haven't really found that there was a lot of, you know, space in between for people to just talk about, you know, their relationship with alcohol. So that's neat that you're a little interested in that.
[00:15:58] It sounds like.
[00:16:00] Natalie Migliarini: [00:16:00] Yeah, I think also I have friends and work a lot and do a lot of speaking tours, geared towards bartenders and people in the hospitality industry. And when you're around alcohol all the time and people are buying you drinks and things like that, it's a, it's a very hard situation to address.
[00:16:21] Right. So I think, um, the mental health aspect of it. Why you're drinking, what you're drinking and how you're drinking is a really important concept that not only regular people are not that aware of, but even the hospitality industry that's around drinks and cocktails and spirits all the time. And we haven't really.
[00:16:49] Address that mental side of it in this industry that much. I mean, there's been some speakers here and there at conferences I've been to, but there haven't been as much awareness I think, as there should be within the industry.
[00:17:08] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:17:08] Well, one of the things that I was really excited about just as they started to write the blog and think more about the topic.
[00:17:16] Is that I believe that we can actually have more fun with alcohol when we have a little bit of some predefined parameters around how much of it we are going to drink, which was a little bit of a surprise to me because they feel like a lot of high functioning people, they tend to be really self-disciplined.
[00:17:36] And so then when they drink. It's kind of like, Oh great. I'm just letting go. You know? And so why would I want to have self discipline in this area? This is like my time to just let loose a little bit. And, but I was really surprised to discover that, you know, certainly for myself and for a lot of the clients I was working with somehow having a preset.
[00:17:57] Limit around it, or actually I don't like the word limit because that kind of implies deprivation. The point of the blog is really more that we find our sweet spot and that we know in advance how much alcohol is really going to make us feel the best. And that when we know that in advance, we actually end up having a better time and having more fun with it.
[00:18:19] Natalie Migliarini: [00:18:19] Yeah. I mean, I think that that kind of awareness is really great. Just giving, given that. I guess you don't feel as much pressure when you have an idea of the moment that you start going down the road. That's too much consumption. So I do like that. I mean, I do like the idea of just sipping on a couple drinks and having that social life.
[00:18:46] So people don't feel like they are limited and they're like, Oh, this is like, I shouldn't drink at all. Like I can. I have to set this limit. I'm not going to be able to socialize with my friends at happy hour on how, as how I used to do it. So I do think understanding that and maybe thinking about the alternatives to the things that you are drinking does create that mindfulness of what you're consuming.
[00:19:18] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:19:18] Yeah. Yeah. It's, there's so much to, to think about there, but you know, Natalie, like I mentioned, of course my focus is on high functioning people. And so I, I got to read a little bit about you and you're a pretty high functioning person yourself. It's pretty interesting to me. What it looks like you've done, which is that you are a content and marketing company.
[00:19:42] And then you managed to take your hobby, which was, you know, you were making alcoholic, you know, beautiful Booz cocktails drinks, and you were just so good at it that people were asking you for your recipes. And so then you started sharing them and beautiful booze was born and you now have like a hundred thousand followers on Instagram and then you have.
[00:20:04] A bunch more on Twitter. Um, and that's really awesome that you were actually able to just take your hobby. Something like, you know, as you know, normally we think of drinking as just an indulgence and you were able to actually just take your hobby and parlay it into a little side business. I mean, how high functioning is that?
[00:20:26] Natalie Migliarini: [00:20:26] It's it's, it's very crazy to me that I was able to, I mean, really take this from a hobby into a full time business. I am still like, what am I doing? I actually worked for the government previously for about 12 years and I was focused in public Hill. And so this is a very interesting, um, kind of road that I've taken because.
[00:20:50] My previous job was so focused on public health and teaching people just how to be healthier overall. So putting alcohol into that mix is kind of opposite from what I was doing, but at the same time, I'm looking for ways to combine those things together. And I feel like there is an opportunity to have those discussions and educate people on, you know, mindful drinking and alcohol choices.
[00:21:19] And. With that being said, probably the most asked question that I get from all my forwards is, is about consumption. It is about like, you know, during COVID-19 I've been doing a lot of Instagram wives. And so I will show people up to like four cocktails. They can make online and. It never fails. I get the question.
[00:21:45] Are you going to drink every single drop of all four of those cocktails and for me, cause this is my job. Um, I learned early on. Yes, I do love cocktails. I like drinking, but for me it's like very situational. I still need to work. So. I liked the idea of trying all the cocktails. It's, it's not something where I'm making cocktails and drinking all day.
[00:22:15] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:22:15] Well, yeah, I guess I'm curious about that though. I mean, I think with the mindful drinking blog, one of the most challenging parts for many people is that their drinking sweet spot is going to be a place where they've had enough to drink that they're not really, you know, thinking in their, you know, most sharp.
[00:22:35] Future results oriented type of a way. They're really just feeling that kind of sense of relaxation and in the moment just doing what feels good. And when you are in that head space, when you're actually having the most beautiful boozy cocktails in the world, I'll say for myself, it's very easy to get into a mindset in that moment where I just feel like, Oh, well more must be better.
[00:23:02] Like I'm feeling great. You know, this drink is really working for me. Let's just, you know, have another, um, I'm curious. Do you, yourself also still kind of get tricked that way sometimes? Or are you somehow always able to. No. Where is the right spot?
[00:23:19] Natalie Migliarini: [00:23:19] No, it's not easy for the last spot I've been traveling and, um, I don't know for me going into these really popular bars around the world, I'm like, Oh, this is my would be my only pants I go to this place.
[00:23:42] So I need to make it, I need to try a lot of cocktails and what's even with my work mind on. So I.
[00:24:00] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:24:00] Yeah, well, I'm so glad to know. I'm not the only person that is still trying to figure it out sometimes. Um, so I'm curious then, like if you yourself have ever actually tried any sort of mindfulness exercises or any like, you know, drinking moderation exercises or anything like that. I
[00:24:21] Natalie Migliarini: [00:24:21] haven't per se done like exercises, but I've definitely got into the mode of trying to create cocktails for my audience with a purpose.
[00:24:32] So like trying to create options. So I will tend to make cocktails that can also be adjusted to be spirit free. So like my goal is to offer those alternatives. So like if somebody isn't drinking or they do want to practice a more mindful drinking, they don't have to have soda or soft drink. There are ways to feel like you are be able to feel social and go out somewhere or even in your own home and make things cocktails that may be low ABV or spirit free without.
[00:25:13] You know, having to drink, but they're beautiful creations. So you don't really feel like you're left out. If you are ordering a so called mocktail or, you know, the only option to be non-alcoholic is soda, water, but a lot of bars and restaurants are becoming very mindful of that also. And they're putting a lot of effort in creating these, um, Beverage menus with a lot of different non alcoholic and low ABB options.
[00:25:48] And actually I went to a bar in Portugal where they intertwined all of their drinks together. So you, there wasn't a page that said non alcoholic. It would say non alcoholic by the drink, but they had a thing menu with about five sections and they made sure to include a low ABV and non out option. So you were even ordering from that themed menu without feeling left out.
[00:26:19] And I mean, your cocktail comes out beautiful. Nobody would even know you were drinking, um, something without alcohol.
[00:26:28] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:26:28] Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, that sounds incredible. That, that really, that sounds, that sounds amazing. I'm just curious. Also, if you have any other tips, I mean, I think probably most people have heard the idea that like, you can alternate your drinks, like one alcohol and one water.
[00:26:46] Um, but do you have any like tips for people that are trying to moderate their drinking that maybe we haven't heard
[00:26:52] Natalie Migliarini: [00:26:52] before? I mean, the water thing I think is staying hydrated while drinking is, is very important, but I mean, my tip is people, the term mocktail has a very bad rap. Okay. Mocktail, like, it just sounds horrible.
[00:27:14] Right. So I think kind of. Switching your mind frame a little bit to understand that some of these low ABV options and non ALC serves are not totally gonna be horrible. So like thinking about getting up the courage or try, and one of those, just because, you know, I I've seen bartenders put in as much work creating these.
[00:27:44] Spirit free cocktails when they do with the Ray or a cocktail menu, because, you know, you ha you have to add more. You have to think about the flavors without that, the booze. And then there are Booz alternatives now, like see lips, I even saw a non out tequila. So there are these other things that you can try.
[00:28:05] So I, I think not writing off the idea of trying some of these. Low ABB and not out cocktails to kind of supplement some of the more booze forward cocktails, like old fashions and Manhattans that you may be used to ordering.
[00:28:28] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:28:28] Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense about it being in your mind. You might be curious.
[00:28:33] I don't know if you've heard about, there's kind of a classic psychology study that was done, where they served, um, people. Drinks with alcohol and the people signed a consent form that they knew that they were going to be getting drinks with alcohol. And then the control group, they had them sign the, the same consent form, but they actually served them alcohol free drinks.
[00:28:55] That they believed had alcohol in them. And the people in that control group actually displayed a lot of the same behavior. It's just simply by thinking that they were drinking, they started acting like they were buzzed. So I felt like that was really proved that a lot of it is in your head.
[00:29:13] Natalie Migliarini: [00:29:13] Yeah, I totally agree.
[00:29:15] I mean, they even have non out like Aperol. You can have a non alcoholic. Aperol spritz, if you want it now. So like anything was possible. They have one alcoholic. Perseco like, that's the thing. So everything is possible now. And I do believe that because it is a mindset because people have this idea. That if they don't have this alcoholic drink in their head, their social life is over and they're just going to be that person that's ordering soda, water at the bar, which sounds horrible.
[00:29:47] So I feel like there has been this gap, especially at bars and restaurants for a really long time. Like if you did order a mocktail, you're getting like a Virgin strawberry daiquiri. That's like full of sugar.
[00:30:03] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:30:03] Right, right. It's just a bunch of calories. Um, so I'm curious since you are into making cocktails and you're obviously a social person.
[00:30:13] I know we're both in the junior league as well. Um, do you feel like you can almost kind of peg a personality around, like what they drink or do you feel like there's any correlation between the type of person and what type of drink they would like.
[00:30:30] Natalie Migliarini: [00:30:30] I mean, I do think that people get a lot of regular people.
[00:30:33] If I pull myself out of my little bubble of trying all these cocktails and liking a ton of them, you do see that a lot of people get order a cocktail that they really like. And that's the one that they. Stick to like that behavior. I see all the time. So if someone has ordered an old fashion, it's considered this for years, it's like the first, like craft cocktail that everybody's drinking, they will tend to stick to something like that.
[00:31:02] Um, because. It's not that many ingredients. It's essentially pure alcohol was sugar and bitters and, you know, bar, every bar has it essentially. So you do see people ordering that. And then beyond that, you'll see people that, you know, like a certain spirit. So they'll always order the drink on the menu that has that specific spirit, like gin or vodka.
[00:31:30] I would, it would people shock me all the time. It would be hard for me to actually point out somebody's personality on what they drink, because a lot of people that I've had a preconceived notion about have ordered something and it's unlike, Oh really? Wow. You know, or some like. Colt bartender product.
[00:31:56] I'm just like, Whoa, where'd you hear about that? So it's, it's interesting to see how different bar scenes have evolved and actually taught the consumer things about cocktails. And obviously it's more developed in certain places than other places, but I think it's very interesting if I'm sitting at a bar and I overhear a bartender suggesting drinks, and I think that's really.
[00:32:20] Cool. If I'm a, bartender's like, Oh, what spirit do you usually drink? Bourbon? Oh, you like an old fashion? How about try like a tequila old fashioned or a Rummel fashion? Just trying to push the bar with cocktails, to get people to drink something out of their comfort zone, because you do get a lot of people that go.
[00:32:39] I had this horrible experience in college with tequila. I'm never drinking it again, but I've tried to really educate my audience on. Buying things that when you sip them, they taste really good. And then when you put them in a cocktail, they're really good, not spirits that only tastes good in a cocktail because you have to mask the flavor.
[00:33:01] So it's more about quality over quantity that I'm actually trying to get people to think about.
[00:33:10] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:33:10] Wow. So you definitely have a high functioning approach to cocktail making. Definitely. I'd like to get out there and try one of your special, beautiful boozy spirits. At some point in time,
[00:33:22] Natalie Migliarini: [00:33:22] I actually have a book that's coming out on.
[00:33:25] August 25th and it's really an extension for my Instagram account. Beautiful booze. It's beautiful boost, stylish cocktails to make at home. I have a whole section on day drinking cocktails, which tend to be more low ABB as well as some cocktail options on how to make some of them spirits free, um, mocktails.
[00:33:49] So I'm excited about that. Putting that out.
[00:33:53] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:33:53] Yeah, that's awesome. What's the name of the book again? It's
[00:33:57] Natalie Migliarini: [00:33:57] booze, stylish cocktails to make at home.
[00:34:01] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:34:01] Beautiful booze, stylish cocktails to make at home. That sounds great. I actually did have one more question for you, Natalie, as well. Since you know, you also have this background in marketing and advertising, and one of the things that alcohol tends to do for people a lot of times is open up their creativity.
[00:34:20] And I feel like we've all seen, you know, the mad men episodes where everyone's always having a drink. And I actually posted my Instagram account a little bit as well. Sometimes I'll go to a bar and I'll have a drink and I'll have my laptop and I'll just do some writing or work on some stuff. Do you feel like alcohol opens up your creativity?
[00:34:40] Natalie Migliarini: [00:34:40] I mean, for me, I feel like. A certain situation where if I go to a bar and I order a cocktail and I have my camera, it does a little bit because I I'm going to take a photo of, I, I feel like I'm working. If I, if I'm like drinking a cocktail or at like I'm at a bar, I feel like I'm working. So when we're on the other hand, when we're talking about mindfulness, I really have to be mindful about.
[00:35:10] If I'm in a bore to do work and taste the cocktails and give a review to my forwards, I, I need to be somewhat together. Um, so that that's a real, that's something that's hard to get. Right. I want you to try all of their drinks, right? They want, they want you to try every single drink that they've made. Um, so I do think.
[00:35:36] In terms of like videos for me and executing things like that. Having a drink does unwind me a little bit to be better on a video sets, but, um, You know, I think one, if, if you do feel like it opens up your creativity is great, but like once you cross that line, I don't think like you're getting any work done, which I've definitely done before.
[00:36:01] So that's why I'm saying, I'm saying that, um, at some point I think there's an expiration date, especially if you're not, I'm a big advocate about. Snacking while you drink. I think that's why they have appar TiVo hour in Europe because they bring you all the, the snacks with every drink that you buy, which I think is really great.
[00:36:23] Cause we don't have that culture here in the U S so a lot of people start drinking and then they don't eat. And then it's kind of like a down downward spiral from
[00:36:33] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:36:33] there. Yeah, that's a good tip. So I I'm really interested in also what you're saying about how you have this kind of tipping point, so to speak, um, because a lot of high functioning people, again, really do like to kind of combine.
[00:36:50] Alcohol with work. Like, you know, we'll be at working events or having a glass of wine and doing some work. A lot of high functioning people are just so passionate about what we're doing. I mean, obviously I would never drink while I was literally seeing a patient that would be absurd, but, you know, I would certainly have a drink, like while it would be like, you know, doing some writing or something like that.
[00:37:11] Um, and for this particular episode, you know, we're really interested in that. Sweet spot again, like where, you know, you're, you're feeling good and you're actually feeling great and you're in control. Um, but you're also, you know, really in that, you know, lose happy space. Um, do you have any personal signs like that?
[00:37:30] You can tell that you're going over that place where you would say, okay, I'm not really like in a good work.
[00:37:38] Natalie Migliarini: [00:37:38] Yeah. I mean, I find it hard to focus. I start feeling tired. That's like a big thing. Like you, you go from like very high functioning functioning for me to not having a lot of motivation after that for work.
[00:37:55] And because. You won wine so quickly when you get past your limit, it's almost like you say, Oh, I don't care. And it like, um, I don't care about it anymore. You know what I mean? You're just, Oh, that's a tomorrow thing. I'll deal with it later. Where as, as a high functioning person sober. That's probably not the same behavior that you would typically have.
[00:38:20] You would probably be on top of it and being motivated to do your work. But as you become looser, if that's a term I can use, you kind of throw those inhibitions out the door and just say, you know, I'm gonna live my life tonight.
[00:38:39] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:38:39] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just so interested in that sweet spot for people. And I imagine there's maybe even two different sweet spots, you know, one is like the sweet spot for when you need to be, you know, maybe like take the agile off a little bit, but actually be in a good working Headspace and then a different kind of a sweet spot where you're actually just really like wedding list with your friends and having fun, but you're still.
[00:39:04] You know, in a, in a place where you're at your optimal level of pleasure. I just think for so many people, they end up having that proverbial one too many. And it's really weird cause they feel like they're indulging in the moment, but they're actually, um, not doing themselves any favors. They're actually detracting from their pleasure.
[00:39:24] Um, so what I found is that it's been really helpful to try to emphasize to people as well as to myself that this is actually about drinking the amount that's going to bring you the most pleasure. So, Natalie, thanks again for sharing with me about your business and about your cocktails and everywhere in between.
[00:39:46] And I would definitely love to get a copy of that book. I'll keep my eye out for it. What's the name of that book?
[00:39:51] Natalie Migliarini: [00:39:51] This beautiful booze. Stylish cocktails to make it home. It's on preorder now. And it comes out on August 25th.
[00:39:59] Dr. Chloe Carmichael: [00:39:59] Awesome. Cool. Okay. Thanks again, Natalie. Have a good rest of the day.
[00:40:07] Well, it was great to learn Natalie's perspectives on how she uses alcohol to have fun, but also stays very much in control. She continues building her business. She's taking work hard, play hard to a whole new level. It was also great to have the chance to share with you about mindful drinking and how to find your sweet spot for me as a former yoga teacher, of course.
[00:40:27] Mindfulness is really important to me. And as a clinical psychologist, working with high functioning people, um, who definitely do enjoy a drink at a various different types of situations, whether it be a business dinner just to drink with friends. Um, I think the topic of alcohol is an interesting one for high functioning people and the chance to blend it with mindfulness, um, is, uh, actually quite a treat for me.
[00:40:50] Thanks for listening to the high functioning hotspot with me, dr. Chloe Carmichael. I hope that you enjoyed it. And I hope that you'll hit the subscriber follow button if your player has one so that I can stay on your radar. And of course, if you would actually like to read the blog post that this episode was space.
[00:41:05] Done, you can click on the detail section and your app, or you can go to the high functioning hotspot.com also I'm all over social media. So whether it's seriously, anything Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, YouTube, just type in doctor Chloe, D R a C H L O E underscore. Usually depending on the platform and my social media accounts will pop up.
[00:41:29] They're also linked in the detail section of this episode, but. Otherwise, please do give me five stars. If you have the opportunity, I'd really appreciate it. The high functioning hotspot is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on the high functioning hotspot or to access complete archives, please visit the high functioning hotspot.com.
New York City is a city that loves to drink. We meet friends for happy hours, we eat at business dinners where a sommelier serves amazing wine, we go to trendy lounges that serve artisanal cocktails, we attend networking events with open bars, and many of us love a nice quiet drink with a delicious meal and a lively social scene seated at a restaurant bar. The beauty of it is that for many of us, all this drinking actually leads to great things: successful business dinners, mingling with new and interesting people, a sense of relaxation that happens effortlessly as alcohol immediately creates a mild euphoria that makes us open up, laugh more, and shuts off our incessant internal monologue. Alcohol has clear benefits for many of us, both personally and professionally. With all this drinking, we could probably benefit from some tips from mindfulness to enjoy moderate drinking even more!
The benefits of alcohol lead many of us drink so frequently that it can become habitual. There is nothing inherently wrong with drinking habitually, but many clients who come to my office indicate that they would prefer to be in control of their habit rather than feel as if the habit has taken on an inertia of its own. It is very important to note that this is different from alcoholism or addiction to alcohol. The distinction I’m making here is that with an addiction, we tend to think of drinking away our last dollar, drinking that leads to arrests or hospital visits, or other forms of drinking that clearly suggest our normal standards of safety and personal responsibility have been severely compromised due to a desire for alcohol; those types of relationships with alcohol are generally best classified and treated as addictions. I do not treat addictions to alcohol- my practice is limited to situations where a person’s alcohol use is perfectly safe and more habit-based than addiction-based; I work with clients who are not alcoholics but simply people who want to increase their sense of purpose and control around the way they drink. Read the full article