Finding Purpose in a Journalism Career
Finding Purpose in a Journalism Career
February 24, 2021
Thought of becoming a journalist? It’s not always the easiest goal; listen to what a professional thinks would help an aspirant!
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE
My guest for this episode is Adam Bulger, a multi-platform creator and journalist. In this episode we walk through his journey through different forms of journalism including his involvement as the founding editor of patch.com.
Beyond having a talent for writing and story-telling, he shares how having a clear purpose for what he was doing greatly helped him achieve his goals.
[00:27] And today's guest is actually a journalist named Adam Bulger , who has interviewed me several times for Fatherly, which is a publication that obviously caters totters. And we've had some really interesting talks about Parenthood and journalism and. I was interested in his input on. Being a high functioning person himself.
[00:50]I'm just always interested in successful people and how they get there. And I think it does take a lot to be a successful working professional journalists these days who can actually also support a family doing it. So I wanted the chance to just, you know, learn about Adam from that perspective, but also to hear and talk to him about what it means to be high functioning as a father, since he is a father himself and writes about it.
[01:14]So whether you're a parent or not. I think that there'll be something, hopefully that's interesting for you in this discussion with this high-functioning person journalist Adam Bulger.
Hi Adam. How's it going?
Adam Bulger[01:32] Oh, there you are.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[01:33]Hi. How are you?
Adam Bulger[01:34]Thanks. How are you?
Dr Chloe Carmichael[01:36] Hey, it's so nice to see you face to face. I know we've talked a lot over the year or two. but this is our first time meeting face to face.
Adam Bulger[01:46] That's right. It's first. Yeah, we've always spoken over the telephone.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[01:50] As you know, this show is called the high-functioning hot spot. And I like to talk to high functioning people, just kind of about what they do and how they got to be there. and I know a lot of people would love to be able to have a professional career as a journalist, as a writer, but it's not an easy thing to just get that. So would you mind sharing, like how you got there, what some of the struggles were and how you made it?
Adam Bulger[02:18] Sure. I would probably start by casting some doubt on the notion that I made it. That's probably a good place to start. The struggle is, is kind of, you know, the struggle continues to struggle as a perpetual. So, I've been a journalist for about 20 years for a variety of publications for I've written for a lot of newspapers, websites and magazines.
[02:45] I've been a local reporter. I helped found a website called patch.com, which people might be familiar with. It was like a local news network and doing that I was covering, The police and fires and government meetings and very straight down the middle gov, you know, local news reporting, very community oriented, local news reporting.
[03:12] And then around the time that my wife was pregnant with my daughter, I went all freelance and that was a big, Sort of shifting this stuff that I was covering, which became more oriented towards, finance and I just flashed, I call image of you. Oh, you're back to things that are probably more interrelated than people might think.
[03:34] And yeah. And I've had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Chloe several times, about psychology and how it pertains to families for fatherly.com, which is the parenting site that I contribute to quite often. It's a great site where we write about everything, pertaining to be a father.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[03:55] Yeah. And I, I do want to talk to you about fatherhood too, but I'm just still curious about, you know, even being a news reporter, like a lot of people would love to be able to have a job as a news reporter and you were writing the news, you know, even for local news on camera, on the air. How did that come about?
Adam Bulger[04:16] I had been working for newspapers for a couple of years. I was working for weekly newspapers and writing a lot of features and covering a lot of things like, you know, a lot of straight news as well, but trying to inject as much personality as I could. And, I had a friend who was involved with, digital news startup, and we just got to talking and I realized that all of those kind of brick and mortar skills I've been doing for years as a journalist had direct, bearing on the project they were trying to do, which turned out to be patched, which, as you said correctly, it was, It, it integrated a lot of different storytelling methods to report the news, which included audio and video and text and, engaging with social media, and very much involved being, part of a community, part of the community that I was covering.
[05:08] So, I always tell people it was like Mayberry. If that's not too dated, ever reference, the Andy Griffith show, that was the town very dated two dated. All right. So let's see, it was like Pawnee on parks and recreation. Newer show.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[05:23] Okay. Yeah. I don't watch a lot of TV, but I actually did watch the Andy Griffith show growing up.
Adam Bulger[05:28] Okay. Well, it was, so it was, you know, a small town and everybody knew everybody. you know, the barber knew the police chief and, the police chief knows the mom, biggest the pies and she knows the teacher and they know the reporter who's always around. That's what it felt like. I felt like I was the reporter in Mayberry and it was great because people knew me and I could see, How my stories were enriching their lives and informing them on a day-to-day basis.
[05:56] It was pretty wonderful. so that's, I mean, that would be my advice to anybody who wants to be in journalism is to, try to figure out why you want to be in journalism and what you're doing. Why do you want to provide people with information? And that'll give you a clearer idea of what you want to do with journalism.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[06:16] Did you have to overcome a lot of rejection along the way?
Adam Bulger[05:28] Certainly. Yes.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[06:21] How did you handle that?
Adam Bulger[06:24] With a mix of healthy and unhealthy reactions, I think like, like most people, you know, so you, sometimes, you know, you'd be very discouraged and you'd wonder why, you know, why that would happen.
[06:36] And, you know, how does this reflect on me? What did I do wrong, or what's wrong with me? And then some nine other times, you know, you're able to say like, well, I wasn't a great fit for this or other things will come along or, or so forth.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[06:51] You know, that's an interesting one because you know, for anybody that wants to do anything involving being on camera, It is ultimately super cutthroat.
[07:01] You know, there's thousands of people that would take your position. And I always feel like it's a balance because as you said, asking the question, if you didn't get the part or the role, to a certain degree, it is the healthy question to reflect and to say, what did I do wrong? What could I have done better?
[07:19] Yeah. But of course at the same time, you also have to really know when it had nothing to do with you, because you could also actually, almost correct yourself the wrong way. If you started thinking it was stuff about you when it had nothing to do with you. so it takes a lot of. awareness. I'm curious though, to Adam, like what do you think old Smedley kind of helped you to be one of the ones who made it versus other people who just, they never seem to really make it click.
[07:53] They never really get it off the ground. What do you think helped you to stand out and don't be afraid to brag a little bit. Okay.
Adam Bulger[07:59] Sure. Well, I'm very confident in my abilities as a writer. I think if you read my stories, I think they're very good. I think that just as in so far as writing, I think I'm just better than most people.
[08:11] I just have a better sense of language and better flair for storytelling and, you know, just how to get information across. It'd be a words. And, the other thing, is what I was, trying to talk about earlier, which is that I figured out the reason for. What I was doing. I had a clear purpose in mind with my writing, which at the one I was doing a local journalism at that time it was, you know, to help this community to be a part of this community and enrich their lives and trying to figure out what, what would help them, you know, in both the short term and long, like sometimes like there would be a power outage and I would just have to give people information about.
[08:49] What happens to power? When is it coming back? Here's where you can get water and gasoline and so forth. And other times it was like, okay, here, here's this complicated government action. And let me explain it to you and why it's important. but now that I've, I write parenting things, which you might imagine it's not relatable to local news, but the approach is the same.
[09:14] I think about. The purpose of what I'm doing. And it's very clear to me the purpose of what I'm doing with all of my father and his stories, which is try to, treat, try to inject some compassion and empathy into these stories and, build a case that, you know, fathers are more alike than they're different and we all need some help. And we're, You know, and we shouldn't be afraid to ask for it.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[09:39] Yeah, definitely. And again, I really do want to talk to you about the father stuff because, you know, I'm, I'm actually kind of toying with the idea of like even potentially writing a book about high functioning parenting. but, but I, I do.
[09:55] Yeah, it would be fun. I'd probably include some quotes from you. I, I, I was also curious just on the journalist part because, you know, you mentioned like, Sometimes that you felt like you were kind of forming people. And, the reason for what you were doing is, you know, community membership. And sometimes that could involve even, conveying information about government actions and things.
[10:16] And that makes me think a lot about what's going on in the news and the media right now. There's, there's a lot of, I think questions and as a psychologist, I'm really interested in that, you know, what does it mean to be really objective? Like, is it possible even when we choose a story? and as a psychologist, again, I almost think it would, yeah.
[10:37] Almost be impossible for someone to say either that they have no opinion or that their opinion in no way shapes the words or the behaviors that they think about. So can you speak to that for a moment as a journalist .
Adam Bulger[10:52] Your supposition I think is, is almost entirely correct? I think it is impossible to be completely objective especially in writing about politics information, and in government rather, I would say definitely that there's a lot of stuff that there's a lot of things you can write about and cover that you can write about objection, objectively. That is, you know, just when you're just relating facts and they're not, controversial or the facts are not in doubt.
[11:20] Like if there is a, an earthquake. And, you know, you report how bad the earthquake was and what the damage was. And here's the, reporting agency that reported it. And here's where I got the information from. It's very straightforward. However, if you're, if you're reporting anything related to an elected official, anything elect anything related to, a political party or a politician, then things get a little bit dicier.
[11:48] And, and just in terms of, of how much your experience and your thoughts and your point of view is going to inform that story, it would be impossible for you, for your, we all personally filter everything through, you know, w we, we filter reality through ourselves. You know, that filter is always there.You know, it's always. It's always there.
[12:15] And so if you're trying to express what reality is, it's unavoidable that you're going to, you know, use that, use that filter. You're going to use them kind of relate your perspective or your opinion or your feelings, you know? so I'd say it, I'd say it's impossible, to be perfectly, objective and news reporting with about politics.
[12:39] But I think that. Most journalists do the best that they can. And, I mean, th the, the, the reason why I'm qualifying that statement is I don't want people to be like, to think that, that the news is fake or that the news is too biased or that you're just getting some kind of propaganda, which you're not.
[12:59] And this is a more nuanced idea just that, who you are, is going to inform how you process and explain reality almost all the time.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[13:09] Yeah, well, I mean, I think actually factual inaccuracies in the news, are happening quite often. so I don't think that you're, you know, planting a concern in people's minds by talking about that.
[13:22] I think it's kind of an elephant in the room. yeah. You know, I'm, I'm curious, also part of the reason I'll share with you. I'm so curious is because, in a few, on September 30th, we have our first debate and I'm actually going to be on the air, on television, commenting on body language of that.
[13:40] You ended it. And so to be honest, I'm a little nervous about that. And because I think that there can be so much, hostility and anger and confusion, you know, from people. and I, to be honest, I almost was like afraid to even do this piece. I was just like, I just don't know if that makes sense for me to do, but, You know, somebody I really know.
[14:02] And trust said, you know, clay, I really think, you know, that, that you would be the perfect person to do this because you know, you really don't, have an angle that you're trying to in any way, take a side in it. so, you know, I decided to give it a try, but I'm curious at, you know, In all, you you've had a lot of experience and you mentioned, you know, having reported like in government related stuff before, have you ever had a time, like when you knew like that you had an opinion, but you ha you were trying to figure out how to remove that part of yourself and really just report objectively.
Adam Bulger[14:39] Yes. and it's sort of inevitable, like when you're covering government, because government is composed of people. And you have to interact with them on a regular basis. And when you interact with people on a regular basis to get to know them and you form relationships and, sometimes forming those relationships can, can make it difficult to report the news.
[15:02] That's sort of the challenge of it. not just your own sort of thoughts and biases, but your, you know, your, your experience with a person like, you know, if you're. Reporting on somebody and you've like had lunch with them or something of that nature. You know, you're gonna think of him as a friend or if you've had a set amount of shared experience, you know, whatever it is, even something small, you think of them like a friend and that can make you, Make it difficult to say, to write difficult things about them.
[15:31] It can be difficult to write things that are true, that would make them uncomfortable. You think about their feelings or you think about the relationship that you have and, And that can be a violation of the public trust because sometimes you have to put that aside and, you know, sometimes this person that you have a nice relationship with has done something wrong or has a bad, you know, some kind of view that might be destructive. And you have to report on that.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[15:56] So, has that ever cost you relationships?
Adam Bulger[15:59] Yes. Oh yeah.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[16:01] Wow okay. And how old were you at? And when you knew that you wanted to be a journalist?
Adam Bulger[16:06] I was in my twenties, like around, just graduating from college. and I decided I wanted to be a journalist after I had started being a journalist.
you know, I always wanted to write, and then, people were, I got a writing assignment. That involved calling people up and getting, you know, doing some research and getting quotes and stuff. And then, it wasn't until like I did that about four or five times that somebody told me it was journalism, you know, I just thought it was writing and whatever. So, yeah, so that's it.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[16:40] Yeah. And so you are a father yourself, right. And tell me, like, how many kids do you have and what is it like being a journalist about fatherhood when you are a father? What's the overlap like?
Adam Bulger[16:52] Well, I only have, I have only have one. I have one daughter, she's six years old.
[16:57] Her name is Agatha. she's upstairs watching the new pop patrol movie as we speak. Yeah, a virtual remote learning broke a little early today. and, the overlap to me is, I think that when you become a parent, you suddenly finally have a lot in common with your fellow parents and that realization can kind of take you by surprise, because I think that maybe.
[17:25] Prior to that, maybe you thought you had a lot in common with other people, but now you suddenly had this extremely strong connection with other people. And you're able to, to understand their situation almost instantly like something with, you know, especially with very young children. Like if somebody has a baby.
[17:48] You see somebody walking around with the baby, you instantly, as you know, I know that you're a parent as well, Chloe, you know, that experience and you know, like you see somebody as a baby and like, yes, I know that I know exactly what you're doing and it's taking a lot of willpower for me, not just to run up to you and give you like 20 minutes of advice right now.
[18:06] Or, you know, 20 minutes of observation and reminiscing or, or whatever, whatever I'm thinking and feeling. And, as a journalist, that's been a really valuable thing to tap into because, you only start writing about things that pertain to fatherhood things that pertain to being a parent. And you just know that it's true and relatable and that the people that you're, that are reading it will get it instantly. And I'll understand and it'll be valuable to them.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[18:98] And have you ever, and I, I almost assume the answer is yes. so I'm just curious about this as a psychologist, I work with, you know, a lot of people and, you know, self-esteem is something a lot of people. Yeah. Think about, and especially with high functioning people, when we're privileged to be able to do work, that is really so personal to us.
[18:58] When you get the privilege to take your art and put it out there and share it with the world in this way. at the same time it can be, I imagine. So RA, if it's ever happened to you that have you ever had someone like slam that work and then it's like, they're not only slamming like the, the art, but if they're also talking about you as a father and your perspectives as a father, like, how do you, do you just want to crawl under your bed and crumble?
Or like, what do you do?
Adam Bulger[19:26] I think at first I had have an early in my career, you know, I couldn't really handle criticism, but then, No, no, nobody likes criticism. I think, I don't think anybody's like, Oh, great. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, nobody likes somebody coming up to you and saying, Oh, here's where you went wrong.
[19:47] Here's what's bad about what you did and so forth. I don't think anybody is like, it gets a flood of dopamine from that. I don't think anybody feels like happy or comfortable. Yeah. You're never going to be like, this is great. This rules, you know, And so I think it just, but then over time, like the first time it hurts a lot.
[20:05] And then the second time, a little less than third time, a little less. And after a while you're like, Oh, okay, whatever. I don't care what, now that I don't care. Not that you don't have a valuable set, there might be some value there, but it doesn't really hurt this criticism doesn't hurt. I will say though, cause you asked about the fatherly stuff.
[20:25] I've really not gotten a lot of negative reaction to it. yeah, I, I, I don't know if that's, I, I would like to think because it's, it's, it's good. I like to think that, you know, I, and I think that's both a flattering to myself and it's also true that I think it's good, but I think it's also people can recognize the, the compassionate I'm trying to employ when I'm writing these stories.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[20:49] Oh, that's beautiful. I mean, I think so too, but I mean, at the same time, there's just, there's crackpots out there in the world, you know, like that's, you know, for me, what I've tried to remember is that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with anything that you even actually said. It's like, someone can just be in that bad, you know, moment and whatever was in front of them.
[21:12] At that time, they were going to, you know, go. Go there. So to speak just I've had to work on developing a thicker skin. Sometimes myself.
Adam Bulger[21:21] It's hard. It's, it's hard, but you know, it just gets a little bit easier every time I find.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[21:26] Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So we have a few minutes left, Adam. I mean, I'm just curious, like, if you don't mind sharing with me, like what are like one or two messages as a father, like the, you know, high-functioning people out there that want to like be a high functioning father or a high functioning mother? Like what would you say to them?
Adam Bulger[21:47] I'd say don't worry about being a high functioning mother or father, first of all. I mean, I think that that's, I think that you you're, we, I, I think that if you're trying to, I would worry about people who are trying to be a high functioning parent, that they'll be putting too much stress on that goal and creating too much anxiety for their, for their family.
[22:08] Cause it's something that you and I have talked about, which is modeling behavior for your kids. And so you don't want your kids to be like insanely stressed out. You don't want them to be crippled by anxiety. You don't want them to be like worried and only spinning and always like, Oh, we gotta do this, we gotta do that. No, you want them to be calm and peaceful and you know, functioning human beings and, and, you know, people who understand that. Life isn't about beating yourself up and going crazy.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[22:38] Let me just maybe rephrase that because yeah, like I didn't really even clarify what I meant by that, but they being a high functioning parent would absolutely include that you would model, you know, a relaxed and secure attitude, but that you would also have goals and that the part of being a high functioning parent is that you would want to think about all those things you're saying of making sure you don't, turn your home into a pressure cooker environment, but that you also make sure that you are providing stimulation and challenges and not just, you know, kind of Missing opportunities but anyway, let me just rephrase the question.
[23:16]What about if you, if you had the chance to share just one or two Adam Bulger nuggets of wisdom that you just wish every parent would know?
Adam Bulger[23:27] You know, could I have a second to think?
Dr Chloe Carmichael[23:30] Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, I guess another question while you think maybe is just, what's your favorite thing about, being a journalist.
Adam Bulger[23:38] I like talking to peopleI like when I'm talking to people for a story and it's something that they're interested in and they're passionate about it, or they know a lot about it. And you can very quickly get to know people very well in those conversations, because you can tap into what they're passionate about, what excites them, you know?
[24:03] So if I'm speaking with, a psychotherapist like yourself, and we're talking about something that you have some expertise, and then I hear it and you've been letting this, you know, you you've been training for it and making it part of your life. And I get to very, I get to very quickly share in a part of your life.
[24:20] It's very important to you. And, I, I really cherish that and I, I got two really quick access to important parts of people's lives very regularly. And it's really, it's really a joyful experience.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[24:34] Yeah, I bet. I bet. So, Anytime you want to jump in with the thoughts to do, but in the meantime, I'll share with you. I mean, I have to admit, as I mentioned, I was thinking, I'm kind of thinking about writing a book about, high functioning parenting, because my, nervous energy, harness the power of your anxiety for success is coming, in March. And my agent has already been talking to me about potentially doing a book, about high-functioning parenting and I'll admit it like I've read tiger mom.
[25:02] Like, I, I love that. Stuff, you know, because I actually feel like if you, if you have the raw materials, it's almost criminal to, to fail, to offer your child those opportunities three and a half. And he's been taking piano lessons since he was two, he's been doing TaeKwonDo since he was 18 months. And he's reading books by himself in the hooked on phonics system, like books.
[25:26] I've never read to him before he's able to read them. And. You know, I love it. And of course, I also love that he's a good communicator and he's deeply affectionate and he is responsible, and I love communicating those things to him. And I was a yoga teacher before I was a psychologist. And so I've also taught him a lot about using your breath to do things.
You know, he, he had, he had a ball the other day, like a wiffle ball and he had it really far and they said, yeah, Billy that was amazing. You know, how did you do that? And he looked at me and he said, I did it with my breath. I was like, that is just so cool. Cause I could really see he did it and like he, he had it, he used his breath.
[26:12] So I kind of use the word high-functioning parenting without shame. I feel like it's me. It's not about creating like a, you know, some kind of a sterile achievement, only environment. But, I think that you're a high functioning person and I think I am too. And I think that we just, have a zest and to me, that's what I mean about high functioning parents.
Adam Bulger[26:38] Right? Well, the one thing I always remember with my daughter, is that, and this is very hard for high functioning people who are parents is that she's not me. And she's not going her interests and her passions are not going to line up perfectly with mine. That's the first thing. So I, you know, I don't need her to, right.
[27:02] She's named after her name is Agatha she's named after a writer, but she doesn't need to write. She doesn't need to do journalism. Okay. You don't know if I see her. She is actually right now, more aptitude with math then with language and, you know, wonderful. That's wonderful. You're, you know, you're not an extension of me.
[27:19] You're not, you don't need to do that. you don't need to be like me. Exactly. You know? So that's the first thing. The second thing is, I would say it's really to build on what you said about sterile kind of achievement. You know, stuff, you had a better word than stuff and I, I don't quite recall it, but give your kids some freedom to find their own passions.
And that's the things that they'll probably want to pursue the most. I mean, you have to do that within reason, but, I might, you know, when I was a kid, my parents really pushed me into sports and stuff, and I never responded that well to it as an adult, I learned to really, Love fitness and exercise just as a thing unto itself just makes you feel good and so forth, but I'd never liked competitive sports, you know, and the things that, you know, I really liked reading and I really liked playing music and, being more creative stuff.
[28:19] And that's really where I put my energy towards. And that's really where I found a lot of happiness and success in my life. with that stuff. So I am so grateful to my parents. They did give me that freedom. They give me the freedom to pursue what I wanted to pursue. you know, but I, and I'm, I guess you want your kid to put, you know, do you want them to have the experience playing baseball, but you know, that's fine, but it didn't really work out for me.
You know, so yeah. Give it, give your kids freedom to pursue their passions. I think that's, I think that's the thing. I would really stress the most.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[28:52] Thanks Adam. I mean, that's, I mean, it's, it's a good one, I think because it's, it is a fine line and I'm glad you brought up the example of baseball because yes, on the one hand you want to just let your kids kind of follow their passion, follow their will.
[29:05] But on the other hand, if you don't. Kind of like structure a child to, you know, learn the alphabet. They'll never learn how to write, have that passion. And so sometimes, you know, I think even just the, the, what they taught you with baseball, even though you didn't end up liking baseball, maybe what you did learn is how to adhere to something.
[29:28] Even if it doesn't feel right. You know, like a thrill in the moment, but you learned something about self-discipline and following through on stuff. So it's such a factor.
Adam Bulger[29:40] And as well as I work being part of a team and working with other people towards a common goal, when a lot of creative pursuits, you know, you're not worth writing you're on your own. But you know, if you're. Doing art. If you're doing music, you know, you might play with ensemble, you might work with the team to create art or how to, you know, struck people or manage them, or, you know, learn how to communicate your ideas and do that in a way that's not gonna, and to communicate them under stress.
[30:10] And so things like, you know, being in a baseball game where you'd be like, no, throw it a third. And after you know, any to, work with other people and be under a little bit of stress and communicate clearly and quickly.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[30:25] I mean, I think for those listeners who are not even necessarily parents, I think that it's so interesting because the things that we do want to teach our kids about that combination between self-discipline and knowing what you want to do and following your passion, those are things either, you know, that we need to teach our kids or for many of us, we have to learn how to almost parents ourselves at a certain point too. So, I love what you're saying about, you know, wanting to give people latitude, but then also, you know, finding that, place where as a parent, you are supposed to, you know, provide the structure.
[31:02]I think for me with that book, if I do it about, high-functioning Parenthood, That would be, that would be probably one of the areas I might look at. so Adam, I know, usually it's just a, about a 30 minute show, so I've kept you a little bit longer, but is there, what's the best way we'll, we'll put all your handles in the show notes, just for people that are more audio.
Is there any particular way that, people can find you.
Adam Bulger[31:26] If you Google fatherly, Adam Bulger, you get to my fatherly stories pretty quickly. my Twitter handle is Adam R Bulger and my personal website, which collects a lot of my highlights. So my stories, is Mr. Bulger.com.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[31:40] Oh, M I S T E R B U L G E R.
Okay. Do you have a newsletter?
Adam Bulger[31:51] No, I should.
Dr Chloe Carmichael[31:52] I wish you did. Yeah, I would totally subscribe. Okay, Adam, till the next time. Well, it was so great to be able to sit and talk with Adam A. Little bit to turn the tables on him. Usually he's asking me the questions in our interview is, and so this time I actually got to ask him the questions for once.
[32:09] And so that was pretty fun to do. And I hope that you'll come to the next episode of high-functioning hotspot. Make sure that you hit the subscribe button. If there is one, you leave a comment in the comments. Section about anything that you particularly enjoyed or any questions? I may start even reading some of the comments on the air in future episodes.
[32:28] And I always do love to hear from people. So yeah, if you're on social media, I'm on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Pinterest, everywhere. So wherever your favorite places to be, come and find Dr. Chloe. Yeah, DRCHLOE. If you type that in with whatever social media, that's how you'd find me. There's also links hopefully in the show notes of wherever you're watching this. Thanks again and see you next time.